Author Topic: Should Male Genital Mutilation (Circumcision) Be Banned in the US?  (Read 1445 times)

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Offline Free1982

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Re: Should Male Genital Mutilation (Circumcision) Be Banned in the US?
« Reply #25 on: August 28, 2013, 01:46:18 PM »
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We're gonna have to throw you a BV baby shower!!

Please accept a few early, handy gifts from me....

(White babies not included)


(White man and baby not included)




For the first BIG DOODIE


First books


Might as well get an early start on earning a buck!!







You guys are so sweet. Thank you! And Lmao @ the white babies not included.
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Offline "Side Eye" Sek

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Re: Should Male Genital Mutilation (Circumcision) Be Banned in the US?
« Reply #26 on: August 28, 2013, 01:57:09 PM »
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You guys are so sweet. Thank you! And Lmao @ the white babies not included.

 You're welcome Free!!!!  :043: :043: :043: :043:

Here's to you and hubby having a healthy, happy, bouncing baby!! :singing:

P.S. the glass on right is yours....vanilla creme soda....the beer is mine!
Happy 21st Birthday, My Pride and Joy! 8/21/14

Offline Free1982

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Re: Should Male Genital Mutilation (Circumcision) Be Banned in the US?
« Reply #27 on: August 28, 2013, 02:03:51 PM »
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You're welcome Free!!!!  :043: :043: :043: :043:

Here's to you and hubby having a healthy, happy, bouncing baby!! :singing:

P.S. the glass on right is yours....vanilla creme soda....the beer is mine!

Cheers!  :singing:
And I apologize to Sami for hijacking his thread. It was not my intention.
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Offline "Side Eye" Sek

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Re: Should Male Genital Mutilation (Circumcision) Be Banned in the US?
« Reply #28 on: August 28, 2013, 02:07:12 PM »
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Cheers!  :singing:
And I apologize to Sami for hijacking his thread. It was not my intention.

In all seriousness I'm going to watch these videos tonight, there are two sides to this issue, those who support it, and those who don't.  It's doubtful if this country will ever ban circumcision.
Happy 21st Birthday, My Pride and Joy! 8/21/14

Offline Kendra

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Re: Should Male Genital Mutilation (Circumcision) Be Banned in the US?
« Reply #29 on: August 28, 2013, 02:33:24 PM »
Foreskin restoration is the process of expanding the residual skin on the penis, through surgical or non-surgical methods, in an attempt to expand or restore the foreskin, which may have been removed by circumcision, with new tissue.

Foreskin restoration can be attempted for several reasons, among them being a desire to create the appearance of a natural foreskin (prepuce) covering the glans, or to increase sexual sensitivity of the glans and the interior of the restored foreskin, or to reduce discomfort due to exposure of sensitive areas during everyday activities. Foreskin restoration techniques are most commonly undertaken by men who have been circumcised or who have sustained an injury, but are also used by men who desire a longer foreskin and by men who have phimosis. Bigelow lists:
aesthetics
restoration of glanular sensation
sexual stimulation and restored sexual function
restoration of a sense of wholeness
improvement of body image
regained power over one's body
anger management
genital power
as reasons that circumcised men choose to restore their missing foreskin.[1]

*smile*
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Offline Free1982

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Re: Should Male Genital Mutilation (Circumcision) Be Banned in the US?
« Reply #30 on: August 28, 2013, 02:44:10 PM »
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In all seriousness I'm going to watch these videos tonight, there are two sides to this issue, those who support it, and those who don't.  It's doubtful if this country will ever ban circumcision.

I doubt there will be a ban either. It's just too publicly accepted that the health of our sons will be effected if we don't circumcise. And even if most people aren't religious or Jewish there is still a pervasive belief that it's more Christian to circumcise.
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Offline ablackmanx

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Re: Should Male Genital Mutilation (Circumcision) Be Banned in the US?
« Reply #31 on: August 28, 2013, 03:16:27 PM »
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I doubt there will be a ban either. It's just too publicly accepted that the health of our sons will be effected if we don't circumcise. And even if most people aren't religious or Jewish there is still a pervasive belief that it's more Christian to circumcise.


(Not that it matters.) Where does the 'Christian' Bible say that for a man to be 'holy' he must have been involuntarily mutilated while he was a newborn?

Offline howsguess

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Re: Should Male Genital Mutilation (Circumcision) Be Banned in the US?
« Reply #32 on: August 28, 2013, 03:20:12 PM »
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This has been a topic my husband and I keep coming back to. We're sure we're having a boy (unconfirmed) but we can't decide what we want to do.
On the one had, the thought of causing my child pain makes me nauseous.
On the other hand, this is an accepted practice in the US and women are used to seeing circumcised penises. What if I leave my son uncircumcised and it somehow effects his love life? I want him to be happy later in life too.
I'm aware that this procedure is completely aesthetic and not doing it won't effect the health of my child, but I'm still torn. I know plenty of people who have sons and had them circumcised. None of them have dealt with the health issues this article talks about.

That sounds like a decision your future son will be happy to make about something that he'll have to live with.After all,it'll belong to him.

Offline Sami Ra Maati

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Re: Should Male Genital Mutilation (Circumcision) Be Banned in the US?
« Reply #33 on: August 28, 2013, 03:21:30 PM »
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"If you can convince the lowest white man that he's better than the highest black man, he won't notice you picking his pockets."

  --Lyndon Johnson, 36th President of the United States  

Offline Free1982

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Re: Should Male Genital Mutilation (Circumcision) Be Banned in the US?
« Reply #34 on: August 28, 2013, 04:04:50 PM »
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(Not that it matters.) Where does the 'Christian' Bible say that for a man to be 'holy' he must have been involuntarily mutilated while he was a newborn?


If it doesn't matter, why ask? You're super confrontational about something that doesn't effect you personally and I don't get into debates with people online. Ever. I have no interest in agreeing with you or anyone else on any topic.
Now, if you're really interested, here's a link. If not, have a great day and go scowl at something.
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Offline Free1982

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Re: Should Male Genital Mutilation (Circumcision) Be Banned in the US?
« Reply #35 on: August 28, 2013, 04:07:01 PM »
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That sounds like a decision your future son will be happy to make about something that he'll have to live with.After all,it'll belong to him.

Yea, well like most things in my life and your life, decisions were made without our input. From my name to my school to the hand me downs I wore as a child. And this will be a decision I make for him (if it is a him) that I'm taking the time to research now. Thank you.
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Offline ablackmanx

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Re: Should Male Genital Mutilation (Circumcision) Be Banned in the US?
« Reply #36 on: August 28, 2013, 07:43:47 PM »
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If it doesn't matter, why ask? You're super confrontational about something that doesn't effect you personally and I don't get into debates with people online. Ever. I have no interest in agreeing with you or anyone else on any topic.
Now, if you're really interested, here's a link. If not, have a great day and go scowl at something.
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I asked to see how you would attempt to reconcile your prior comments with what the Bible actually says. But I conceded the Bible does not mean to me what it means to most I have observe refer to themselves as Christians. If you do not enjoy DEBATING I suspect you won't long enjoy being an active member of this site.

And whether here, there or everywhere in between, I SCOWL everywhere I go. Hahahaha!

Offline captivewildwoman

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Re: Should Male Genital Mutilation (Circumcision) Be Banned in the US?
« Reply #37 on: August 28, 2013, 07:57:11 PM »
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I asked to see how you would attempt to reconcile your prior comments with what the Bible actually says. But I conceded the Bible does not mean to me what it means to most I have observe refer to themselves as Chans. If you do not enjoy DEBATING I suspect you won't long enjoy being an active member of this site.

And whether here, there or everywhere in between, I SCOWL everywhere I go. Hahahaha!

Aw, Free is a total sweetie, ya big bully!  Play nice with her.

And hi.  I haven't chatted with you in a minute or two.  Best wishes to you and the family.
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Offline Sami Ra Maati

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Re: Should Male Genital Mutilation (Circumcision) Be Banned in the US?
« Reply #38 on: August 29, 2013, 09:01:44 AM »
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I'll be honest. I don't know how other women think. I've only been with my husband so I didn't have an endless parade of dicks to compare. What if girls really get turned off by uncircumcised penises?

If they're that shallow they aren't worth being with. Besides, there are plenty who aren't turned off by it. What if, in this age of globalization, a man from another culture who is the perfect gentleman earning a big fat paycheck gets turned off by an uncircumcised American woman?
"If you can convince the lowest white man that he's better than the highest black man, he won't notice you picking his pockets."

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Offline Sami Ra Maati

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Re: Should Male Genital Mutilation (Circumcision) Be Banned in the US?
« Reply #39 on: August 29, 2013, 09:05:04 AM »
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Waiting for the local female commentary...

That's like waiting for pigs to fly. Don't hold your breath.
"If you can convince the lowest white man that he's better than the highest black man, he won't notice you picking his pockets."

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Offline Sami Ra Maati

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Re: Should Male Genital Mutilation (Circumcision) Be Banned in the US?
« Reply #40 on: August 29, 2013, 09:08:46 AM »
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cut that sh*t off. that foreskin is useless..

That's mythology. You didn't read any of the articles I posted. Foreskin increases sensitivity and sexual enjoyment by men. Male genital mutilation in men has the same harmful effect on the ability of men to enjoy sex that female genital mutilation has on women's ability to enjoy sex.
"If you can convince the lowest white man that he's better than the highest black man, he won't notice you picking his pockets."

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Offline Sami Ra Maati

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Re: Should Male Genital Mutilation (Circumcision) Be Banned in the US?
« Reply #41 on: August 29, 2013, 09:24:26 AM »
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This has been a topic my husband and I keep coming back to. We're sure we're having a boy (unconfirmed) but we can't decide what we want to do.
On the one had, the thought of causing my child pain makes me nauseous.
On the other hand, this is an accepted practice in the US and women are used to seeing circumcised penises. What if I leave my son uncircumcised and it somehow effects his love life? I want him to be happy later in life too.
I'm aware that this procedure is completely aesthetic and not doing it won't effect the health of my child, but I'm still torn. I know plenty of people who have sons and had them circumcised. None of them have dealt with the health issues this article talks about.

I have 3 sons whom I refused to have circumcised due to the barbarity of the practice and the fact that there's no medical need to have it done. Claims of health benefits are myths being passed off as facts. Complications - short term & long term - are just now beginning to surface. To me they greatly outweigh the non-existent benefits.
"If you can convince the lowest white man that he's better than the highest black man, he won't notice you picking his pockets."

  --Lyndon Johnson, 36th President of the United States  

Offline Sami Ra Maati

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Re: Should Male Genital Mutilation (Circumcision) Be Banned in the US?
« Reply #42 on: August 29, 2013, 09:28:53 AM »
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Sami when I get some quiet time, I will take a look at these videos....we had our son circumcised... :woe:

Read the articles too. That's where the real - pardon the expression - meaty stuff is to be found.
"If you can convince the lowest white man that he's better than the highest black man, he won't notice you picking his pockets."

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Re: Should Male Genital Mutilation (Circumcision) Be Banned in the US?
« Reply #43 on: August 29, 2013, 01:38:59 PM »
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"Many Europeans are taken aback when they find out. 'You do WHAT to infants in United States hospitals?'"


An interview with the filmmaker:

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"I remember saying 'it's cleaner, healthier'...and saw the reaction on their faces. They practically laughed me out of the pub..."


The Problems with Male Circumcision: An Interview with the Producer of American Secret

May 1, 2013 By Hemant Mehta

Francelle Wax is the producer of a film called American Secret: The Circumcision Agenda which takes a close look at the problems with male circumcision. More broadly speaking, it addresses the ideas of how ideas spread, why we believe in rituals that serve relatively little or no benefit, and what it would take to change our beliefs.

Francelle was kind enough to answer my own questions as well as those solicited from friends:

Hemant: I was raised with the understanding that it was cleaner and healthier to be circumcised. Is there any truth to that?

Francelle: For those with access to soap and water, hygiene is not a concern. If you were to take an intact child and a circumcised child and abandon each in the wild without the means to bathe, the circumcised child might fare better than the intact child. Obviously, such a hypothetical ought not serve as a basis for how we should do things in the United States in 2013.
This contention about health benefits never fails to elicit laughter from our European and Australian friends. The notion that it’s rocket science to keep oneself clean seems to cement our reputation as an extremely gullible nation that appeals to local authorities too often.

A little boy’s genitals require no maintenance beyond washing. Foreskin should NOT be retracted in young boys. Many American physicians don’t know this and forcibly retract at early pediatric visits, which can lead to complications that prompt the doctors to berate parents for not having circumcised their sons. In 80% of boys the foreskin does not fully retract before age ten. This is not a pathology, it is normal development.

Hemant: How did the religious ritual of circumcision come about? Do most parents circumcise kids for religious or cultural reasons?

Francelle: In the United States, the vast majority of circumcisions are done in secular settings for non-religious reasons. Reasons cited [include] that a father wants his son to look like him or concerns about hygiene fueled by the fear-mongering around that. Often times hospitals and doctors and nurses really hard-sell circumcision. Sometimes the circumcisions elected for religious reasons are done in clinical settings because parents do not prioritize the ritual. The secularization is the focus of my film, so I know more about that area of it. That said, while I describe myself as a practicing atheist, I was born and raised a Reconstructionist Jew, so I’ve been to my fair share of cousins’ brises and know what we were taught in Hebrew School, that God instructed Abraham to circumcise himself and his sons, both Ishmael and Isaac, and that this is why both the Jews and the Muslims circumcise.
There are different claims as to the derivations. I am not qualified to say which have merit, or which is the most plausible. I have heard it said that one likely explanation is that this was done to Jews by their captors, and that the Jews subsequently sort of took on the sign almost Stockholm Syndrome-style, after living with it for generations. But again, this is well outside my realm of knowledge.

Hemant: Do circumcisions (done by a professional in a hospital at a young age) really harm men in the future? What am I missing out on by not having foreskin?

Francelle: Circumcision can be harmful to men, boys, and their partners throughout life.

Skin bridges are a common result of circumcision. As the wound heals, a portion of remaining foreskin adheres to the penis and ultimately results in painful erections. Skin bridges can be difficult to correct later in life, and the corrective surgeries are not typically covered by insurance. Meatal stenosis — a narrowed urethra — is another common side effect. This too can require surgery.

And these are frequently the outcomes of circumcisions deemed “successful.” Severe and immediate complications include:

(1) Plummeting blood pressure.

(2) Allergic reaction to anesthetics. Most anesthetics aren’t approved for children under six months, so they’re used off label. Their efficacy is questionable, as well. Adequately anesthetizing the region requires 8 injections around the penis, a painful experience in its own right. Hurried clinicians often proceed before the anesthetic takes effect.

(3) Hemorrhaging.

(4) Infection.

(5) Death. While deaths are rare, the complications cited above are often recorded as the official cause of death, and the preceding circumcision is left off the books. Consequently, assessing the overall risk of death from the surgery itself is difficult.

Although most circumcised men feel like their sexual functioning is just fine — barring severe dysfunction, it doesn’t come naturally to people to miss what they’ve never had, particularly when it could lead to the belief that there’s something irreversibly “wrong” with them — there’s no getting around the fact that the procedure removes much of the most sensitive tissue.

Hemant: Is it true that male circumcision reduces men’s sexual pleasure? (I would think most men, including circumcised ones, would argue their sex lives are just fine.)

Francelle: Touch sensitivity tests have identified the most sensitive regions of the male genitalia; in intact participants, these are all on the foreskin. Circumcision removes approximately 50% of the nerve endings on the penis, among these, fine touch nerve receptors called the Meissner Corpuscles. We all have Meissner Corpuscles in our fingertips; in the penis, they are only present on the foreskin. These are unique nerve endings which provide very nuanced feedback. Partners of intact men report that they have a better ability to pace themselves and greater control than do circumcised men, and this is almost certainly due in part to the presence of Meissner Corpuscles.
Most men become interested in the issue in middle age after noticing a loss in sensitivity. This is typically written off as “normal aging” by the American medical community. In fact, a decline in sensitivity is often the result of a mucous membrane being stripped of its protective coverage and left to dry and callous over decades. The lack of moisture can also contribute to unpleasant dryness during sex, which may help explain the fact that the United States has a higher demand for products designed to combat vaginal dryness than most comparable countries.

To check for motivated skepticism, consider the following hypothetical:
Imagine that a new group is gaining cultural traction in the U.S. They perform a procedure called “Supercision” on their male infants, which removes more tissue than is removed during a circumcision. They prefer the look of the “supercised” penis, and there is some evidence that the procedure reduces the risk of some STIs (although certainly not enough to render condoms obsolete). Suppose that the “supercised” men swear up and down that they enjoy sex immensely, yet touch sensitivity tests show that the most sensitive region on their penises is only the sixth most sensitive region on a circumcised man’s penis. How many circumcised American men would line up to get the new procedure?

I don’t mean to make the point that all default natural states are optimal — but all surgery carries risks, and circumcision in particular has long-term consequences for a person’s sexuality.

Hemant: Do you think we can really convince parents that what they’re doing is wrong? Is the trend reversing direction?

Francelle: As long as parents or doctors have to admit to wrong-doing, I don’t think we will. It’s unfortunately far too stigmatizing for people to be associated with wrong decisions and actions, especially irreversible ones.
I expect that the decline will come in a very non-dramatic fashion: insurance companies will cease to cover the procedure, which means that doctors will broach the subject differently from how they currently do. Some parents will continue to pay out of pocket and push for it, but over time, the social pressure of needing to look like peers will be a non-issue.
With respect to trends, the numbers dip and rise. There is a fair amount of variation across the nation, with numbers as high as 80% in the midwest and as low as 30% on the west coast. Nationwide, 54.5% of all newborn males are circumcised.

Hemant: How should we deal with the cultural taboo against uncircumcised men? Don’t most porn movies feature men without foreskin?

Francelle: Only American porn.
The squeamishness factor is NOT an intractable problem. There isn’t something in the American water supply that causes little girls to mysteriously develop into adult women who pathologize the natural male body. American women think of foreskins as “unclean” and “unhealthy” because as little girls somebody told them to think that circumcision was a way to make men more clean and to improve their health. Australian girls don’t grow up to think that intact men are unclean or unhealthy, nor do little Norwegian girls or Irish girls or Canadian girls or Polish girls. And there is a very simple reason for that: because no one in a position of authority ever told them that they should.
The same is true in gay culture: boys who are told that they were circumcised for the sake of their health grow into men who are primed to view intact penises as maladies.

We are pretending that this is more difficult than it is. Don’t instruct children to have a warped view of the natural body and this problem goes away in a generation. Problem solved.

Hemant: Are there *any* benefits to male circumcision?

Francelle: There is a reduction in the likelihood of UTIs and penile cancer such that your risk drops from already-infinitesimal to slightly-less-than-infinitesimal. If we’re going to employ that line of reasoning, then there are a number of body parts that we must preemptively strike down before we rid ourselves of foreskins. Risk of penile cancer: 1 in 1000. Risk of breast cancer: 1 in 8. And yet I hear no one advocating for the forced removal of breast buds in children who have the abnormal genes that indicate a very high risk of breast cancer.

Sex feels great in part because of our sensitive skin and mucous membranes. Forcing the hardening of a mucous membrane can accord some protections, but it comes at a cost. The question at hand is whether that cost should be imposed on a person before he is able to consent to it.

Hemant: Male circumcision is not considered as big of a deal as female circumcision, which we know is a major problem in other countries… so why focus on the men in this movie?

Francelle: When meant in earnest, this protest is as valid as any other “we can’t walk and chew gum at the same time” defense — which is to say, not very. You don’t have to ignore female genital cutting in order to be against male genital cutting. Nobody is attempting to recruit those hard at work trying to prevent FGM to abandon their efforts and work exclusively on male circumcision.

There is also a huge accessibility factor. The United States faces resentment from female-circumcising cultures for “barging in” and asserting its views about how they should look. Tackling our homegrown issue of male genital cutting gives us more credibility when we make recommendations to other cultures regarding their children’s right to bodily integrity.

I aspire to be an “early adopter” regarding ethics. I try to be vigilant for potentially-harmful social norms that aren’t adequately justified by the available evidence. I’m also fascinated by why two groups — in many respects similar in culture — diverge on a particular point. That’s what first interested me in circumcision: I attended University in the UK and watched the jaws drop on my English classmates when I casually mentioned that in America, circumcision is routine.

In learning more about the issue — the anti-masturbation agenda which catalyzed the practice, the present day profit incentives, the stories of circumcised men who actually reflected on what had been done to them and chose to leave their sons intact, the parents who circumcised one son but went on to regret the choice, the doctors who at one time circumcised patients but went on to recognize the harm and abandoned this practice — I saw a complete story arc for an ethical issue that is largely neglected. And I saw an interesting way to present it; a way which I think will give people the objectivity needed to make them aware of our national bias around this issue.

Hemant: Finally, just as a point of curiosity, was it weird being a woman, making a movie about the male anatomy?

Francelle: Men and women in the movement are generally happy whenever there’s positive press on their activism. The reel for my film has been incredibly well-received by both men and women in the movement, and no one seems to care about my gender. If anything, a few men have appreciated that a woman would care about the issue enough to make a film about it.

I was privileged to be permitted to film an approximation of a multi-chapter NORM meeting (NORM being the National Organization of Restoring Men). This is where men discuss and get advice on the different techniques and devices used for skin-stretching, and sometimes show the improvement that they are making in their restoration. (Restoring is painless and, if performed regularly for 1 to 4 years, can accord men full coverage of their non-erect penis and recreate some of the benefits of a foreskin.) A number of men shared their experiences and progress very openly with me.

To learn more about the American Secret movie or to make a donation to help the filmmakers, check out their website.
 



i dont agree with it.. dont think it is necessary..and think folks that do it..because white folks say it is for the best are full of shit.. if there is a physical issue that makes it necessary.. o.k............ other than that..men wash their junk properly..it should be ok....

that being said.. banning it?  in the us... *shrug* i dont care that much.......lol.